straight acting: just because i like dick doesn’t mean i want to be treated like a woman in patriarchal society!
i’m pretty sure homophobia is mostly just sexism
Please go fuck yourself. Straight women can be and are just as bad as straight men when it comes to mistreating gay and bi men and women. If you honestly think a straight woman is treated anywhere near as bad as a gay man, you have your head so far up your ass that when the doctor needs to preform a colonoscopy, they just ask you how it looks in there.
Look, I’m sorry for being hostile, but you have to understand how insulting and reductive what you said is. First off it completely ignores gay women. If gay men were treated worse because they were more like women, then logic would follow that gay women would be treated better because they are more like men. This reasoning falls apart as soon as you notice that gay women are treated worse than straight women. So unless it is because gay women are treated as worse because they are more like men (the only other conclusion your logic can possibly reach).
So what is homophobia? Generally misunderstanding and intolerance. There is some “Women are supposed to like men and men women!” in there, which is sexism but not the sort you are talking about. What you said is just insulting to gay men. Gay men are not women. Gay women are not men.
the idea of a “straight acting” man is a man acting like someone who has power in a patriarchal society. i’m not making a statement about every nuance of a gay existence.
Straight acting has a lot more to do with the person not being obviously gay. I am not a fan of the term, I don’t think a man who is looking to have sex with another man can be in any way “straight acting”, but you are reading a lot more into the term than there is.
i acknowledge that i said “homophobia” and didn’t specify that i was talking about the concept of “straight acting gay man” so i sounded like i meant it as a blanket statement. i didn’t and i don’t want to diminish an apology by saying ‘i’m sorry you think that’ — i’m just sorry.
i don’t really care about your rudeness, i get that you’re angry about me minimizing the nuance of gay existence and i’m sorry about that. i’m generally pro-anger.
but i’m gonna have to disagree that “straight women are homophobic” is some sort of counterlogic to anything. straight women/men are sexist as fuck. so are gay women for that matter. lesbians do the same thing sometimes by acting fucking sexist, sometimes even treating other women in a sexist way just because they’re butch, or “hating flamboyant gay men and drag queens” because “they’re so annoying” —that’s not just homophobia, that’s sexism. they are hating (at least partially) the femininity. it’s called internalized sexism.
Okay, there are a few things here that I am going address. First is the definition of sexism you are operating under. I use this definition: “unfair treatment of people because of their sex” but will use it to more broadly include stereotyping or restricting men or women to their respective gender roles. Which means that your example is not at all internalized sexism. Unless said women were getting pissed at a drag kings, it would be externalized sexism because it would be attempting to restrict men to their gender role.
i definitely didn’t say straight women are treated as badly as gay men or women. you took my phrase and really really ran with it. straight women are treated much better EVEN IN SEXISM because they fit their designated “role” in patriarchal society, and are easier to treat in a sexist way, whereas gay men could “act straight” and have the associated privilege and are castigated for not taking on the mannerisms that would give them more privilege if they were to act straight.
Your state was, and I quote, “straight acting: just because i like dick doesn’t mean i want to be treated like a woman in patriarchal society!” which necessarily means that you are saying gay men are treated the same as straight women. If you are going to say something like that you have to own it. Or, at the very least, own up and realize that you said something stupid.
Also, when it comes to “acting straight” that is pretty much entirely meaningless. If a gay man is a construction worker who curses and spits and does all the stereotypically “man” things but still goes home to a male partner does he suddenly gain all the rights that have been withheld from him? Or what about a man dresses like the guy from the “Gay Best Friend” series and has stereotypically gay mannerisms but every night goes home to his wife. Does he lose his straight privilege?
What you are doing is attempting to take men who conform to the male gender role and put them in the role of “straight” whether or not that actually is the case, and then assuming that any gay man who acts in such a way is denying who is really is.
You are also making the assumption that women are treated worse than men, something that you have provided absolutely no evidence for.
(this doesn’t address the rest of how they’re treated for being gay when it comes to things that aren’t appearance or mannerism, like, say, wanting to have a family or raise children and hold hands in public like a couple. i’m fully aware of that and again, am sorry that i didn’t mention this when i said “most of homophobia” instead of “some part of homophobia.”)
but logic doesn’t follow that gay women are treated better because they act like men. gay women still look like women and unless they are trans and passing*, they’re going to look like women and that’s going to get them treated in a sexist way.
The issue is that if you assume that women are treated worse than men and men who are feminine are treated worse because society hates women, the only conclusion that could be reached is that women who are masculine are treated better because they are closer to men. But because masculine and/or gay women are often times treated worse than feminine and/or straight women then the conclusion that you drew in your original post (“treated like a women”=treated worse) does not stand. It has nothing to do with masculine/feminine and everything to do with gender roles, which I see you touch on but kinda ignore, at least for men.
i most definitely did not say “gay men are like straight women” or that “gay women are like straight men” — that is some diminutive bullshit right there. i said that when gay men say they are “straight acting” they are aligning themselves with male privilege. like “oh i’m into dick, but i’m not like, feminine or anything.”
I already mentioned that your original post pretty much says that flat out. If that is not what you meant, then use more than one line to explain yourself. And “straight acting” gay men are not “aligning themselves with male privilege”. They are attempting to use a (frankly bad) shorthand to say that they are not a stereotypical gay man. I have mentioned before that I am not a fan of the phrase, but you are reading way to much into it. From what I have seen “straight acting” men often times like sports, action movies, and sometimes fit the “jock” or “bro” stereotype but are gay. That is all they are trying to say, no matter how poorly they word it.
how the fuck would that define the entire existence of a gay man? a man’s life is a lot more than that. and i actually didn’t say anything about gay women at all. (but i did say the bit about some lesbians taking on sexist male mannerisms in this response a couple paragraphs ago.)
in conclusion: i’m sorry i said “most of homophobia” and not “when a gay man says he’s straight acting” which is just one aspect of homophobia.
the rest of your response is irrelevant to what i said.
*which makes them men by the way because if that’s how someone identifies, regardless of physical attributes, they’re a man. just so you don’t go jumping off to some more asinine conclusions.
I made the response to explain exactly what I found wrong with your original statement, which is a lot. Even beyond that, there are assumptions that you make that I disagree with or things that you take as truths that I do not buy. I also treated the “I’m pretty sure homophobia is mostly just sexism” as “Homophobia: the fear that gay men will treat you like your treat women”. If that is not what you meant, I am sorry, I have seen it so many times and it makes my blood biol every time it pops up.
I do not think “straight acting” is so much homophobia as it is just stupid and nonsensical and I think you are reading way more into it than it is meant to convey.
Also, I am transgender ya dingus.